cam timing vs ecu - Ducati Seattle Rocks
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I have to detail my experience with my bike and injection issues. So, I've have some 'stumbling' issues between 2500-3500rmp (didn't matter what gear) for a long time (2+ years). Bike - 2002 M900ie Current setup - slipons, cut boxtop, K&N, pc3 with custom map. Last summer had a local shop, supposedly know for doing great dynowork, install the PC3 and make a map for my bike. Bike still sputtered, stumbled after apparently being on a dyno for 4 hours to try and 'tune it out'. Shop calls to DNA which said "must be bad ECU - please send 1000 dollars for new one".
This past November I stopped by Ducati Seattle and talked to Marty about the problem. He wasn't all that keen on the open airbox idea for injected bikes, also had some concerns about TPS, TB's, gas levels at header. He thought it would good to have a 'once over check' and since I was 1.5 hours north of Seattle said to give him a call when the weather broke and he'd get me in.
So, yesterday was the day and I was able to get in at Ducati Seattle on a last minute call!!!!. Lucky for me, Marty and Robert had just worked on a bone stock '01 M900ie with similar stumbling issues. Turns out the majority of the problem was cam timing (!!!!). So, after they reset my TPS to 150 instead of 190 w/ butterflies closed, syncd the TB's, and she still ran like poo, we decided to open her up to check the cams, and found my cams to be quite off. They had zeroed out the PC3 (with it's custom map (cough cough - btw - after downloading the map there were NEGATIVE numbers in the map in the lower range....NEGATIVE!! taking OUT fuel in an already lean bike??), tuned the tb's to 4.8CO (at the header, not using the 'banana in the tailpipe' sniffer) and the bike ran GREAT. I mean it's NEVER run like this. So freaking smooth I nearly wet myself with delight!!! I brought it back to the shop and while I was paying the bill, Marty took it for a ride. Came back and said 'there's a little stumbling in the 3K area. I could add a few points down low and smooth it out.....if you want.....' DUH!!! So he hooked up the laptop, added a few points of fuel at the 5 and 10% throttle opening and if that didn't even help MORE!! The response is so smooth it's nutty.
What does this mean?? That if you can't tune the stock stuff, why mess with other bits. Over the past 2.5 years I had tried to use the Techlusion box, twice..nothing. Had TWO different dealers try to 'fix it' during 12K and 18K service (one in Vancouver BC and one that has the dynojet) and neither of those dealers EVER thought about cam timing to help with the stumbling issues or tried to check gases at the header. One response was "it's running a little lean, but I can't get the ecu to respond, but it's ok......".
Granted, maybe they didn't know, or think about cams, (and apparently some of the monsters (97-02) have hoorendous cam timing straight from the factory), but I swore to Robert, Marty and Dave R that I will never take my bike anywhere else (as long as Marty is there) but Ducati Seattle. I'll tolerate the 1.5 hour slog down I-5, fighting soccer moms on cellphones putting on make-up and sipping their chai latte (dead serious on this too.....w/my own 2 eyes, could even SMELL the chai....ok, that parts a lie...... ) to have attention and knowledge like the crew there.
So, while a PC3 smoothes stuff out, it ain't always the answer to the problem. Oh, they also installed a new airbox lid, so I'm back to 'stock'. New thought on injected bikes is the in the airbox direct airflow into the velocity stacks, or something. With carb'd bikes it isn't really that critical. Slipons, K&N, PC3 with 'non-dynojet' custom map and an airbox lid.
Happy Happy Happy.
This past November I stopped by Ducati Seattle and talked to Marty about the problem. He wasn't all that keen on the open airbox idea for injected bikes, also had some concerns about TPS, TB's, gas levels at header. He thought it would good to have a 'once over check' and since I was 1.5 hours north of Seattle said to give him a call when the weather broke and he'd get me in.
So, yesterday was the day and I was able to get in at Ducati Seattle on a last minute call!!!!. Lucky for me, Marty and Robert had just worked on a bone stock '01 M900ie with similar stumbling issues. Turns out the majority of the problem was cam timing (!!!!). So, after they reset my TPS to 150 instead of 190 w/ butterflies closed, syncd the TB's, and she still ran like poo, we decided to open her up to check the cams, and found my cams to be quite off. They had zeroed out the PC3 (with it's custom map (cough cough - btw - after downloading the map there were NEGATIVE numbers in the map in the lower range....NEGATIVE!! taking OUT fuel in an already lean bike??), tuned the tb's to 4.8CO (at the header, not using the 'banana in the tailpipe' sniffer) and the bike ran GREAT. I mean it's NEVER run like this. So freaking smooth I nearly wet myself with delight!!! I brought it back to the shop and while I was paying the bill, Marty took it for a ride. Came back and said 'there's a little stumbling in the 3K area. I could add a few points down low and smooth it out.....if you want.....' DUH!!! So he hooked up the laptop, added a few points of fuel at the 5 and 10% throttle opening and if that didn't even help MORE!! The response is so smooth it's nutty.
What does this mean?? That if you can't tune the stock stuff, why mess with other bits. Over the past 2.5 years I had tried to use the Techlusion box, twice..nothing. Had TWO different dealers try to 'fix it' during 12K and 18K service (one in Vancouver BC and one that has the dynojet) and neither of those dealers EVER thought about cam timing to help with the stumbling issues or tried to check gases at the header. One response was "it's running a little lean, but I can't get the ecu to respond, but it's ok......".
Granted, maybe they didn't know, or think about cams, (and apparently some of the monsters (97-02) have hoorendous cam timing straight from the factory), but I swore to Robert, Marty and Dave R that I will never take my bike anywhere else (as long as Marty is there) but Ducati Seattle. I'll tolerate the 1.5 hour slog down I-5, fighting soccer moms on cellphones putting on make-up and sipping their chai latte (dead serious on this too.....w/my own 2 eyes, could even SMELL the chai....ok, that parts a lie...... ) to have attention and knowledge like the crew there.
So, while a PC3 smoothes stuff out, it ain't always the answer to the problem. Oh, they also installed a new airbox lid, so I'm back to 'stock'. New thought on injected bikes is the in the airbox direct airflow into the velocity stacks, or something. With carb'd bikes it isn't really that critical. Slipons, K&N, PC3 with 'non-dynojet' custom map and an airbox lid.
Happy Happy Happy.
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